Episode 73: Supporting Kids with Learning Disabilities: A Secondary School Team Perspective with Lisa Sanvido
In this episode, we sat down with Lisa Sanvido. Lisa is currently the Vice Principal at John F. Ross CVI and the Vice President of the Learning Disabilities Association of Wellington County’s Board of Directors. She is an educator with a deep passion for supporting students with learning differences and has dedicated her career to ensuring that every student has access to the tools and resources they need to succeed. Lisa has expertise in navigating accommodations, transition planning, and pathway support, which makes her an invaluable resource for both parents and educators. Don’t miss this episode in which Lisa shares her insights on how families can access and navigate support systems in both elementary and secondary schools, ensuring that students with learning disabilities are set up for success—both academically and beyond.
Transcript
Healthy Habits, Happy Homes Podcast
Season 7, Episode 73
Guest: Lisa Sanvido
Marciane Any (0:05)
Hello, welcome to the Healthy Habits, Happy Home podcast hosted by the Guelph Family Health Study.
Tamara Petresin (0:14)
If you’re interested in the most recent research and helpful tips for healthy, balanced living for you and your family, then this podcast is for you. In each episode, we will bring you topics that are important to your growing family and guests who will share their expertise and experience with you.
Marciane Any (0:31)
Our quick tips will help your family build healthy habits for a happy home.
Marciane Any (0:45)
Welcome back to the Healthy Habits, Happy Home podcast. I’m Marciane,
Tamara Petresin (0:46)
And I’m Tamara.
Marciane Any (0:48)
We’re thrilled to welcome Lisa Sanvido, Vice Principal at John F. Ross CVI to the podcast.
With a deep passion for supporting students with learning differences, Lisa has dedicated her career to ensuring that every student has access to the tools and resources they need to succeed. She is a compassionate and dedicated educator who goes above and beyond to create inclusive learning environments where students feel valued and empowered. Beyond her role as Vice Principal, Lisa is also the Vice President of the Learning Disabilities Association of Wellington County’s Board of Directors, where she tirelessly advocates for students with learning disabilities and their families. Her expertise in navigating accommodations, transition planning, and pathway support make her an invaluable resource for both parents and educators. We’re excited to have Lisa join us today to share her insights on how families can access and navigate support systems in both elementary and secondary schools, ensuring that students with learning disabilities are set up for success, both academically and beyond. Welcome Lisa!
Lisa Sanvido (1:54)
Thank you, both! Thank you! Honoured to be here.
Marciane Any (2:00)
Thank you. We are so excited about this conversation. To get us started, can you tell us a bit about yourself, your current role, and how your education and experiences led you to where you are now?
Lisa Sanvido (2:10)
Thank you, Marciane. And thank you, Tamara. And thank you for this opportunity to talk about how to support students within the context of a world that’s ever-changing, and how we can support and look at our students’ strengths and support them through the education system. I began my work as a classroom teacher, so I started at a secondary school in Guelph, and also at that time became a mother, and found that those two worlds came together to help a journey of lifelong learning around supporting students in the classroom, supporting students with reading, taking a look at how we support those that, you know, we all don’t learn the same. Everyone learns differently. So how can we customize our learning, set up differentiated instruction, set up “Know Your Learner,” and tailor our learning to support students, and triangulation in supporting students. I went into a head shift there. I went and worked at the board office for a while in Student Success and then find myself working as a VP. This is my 10th year working within the system.
And as both a parent and an educator, I try every day. I act in the best of faith and good faith every day in trying to support those that need that support, both here at school and then also with Marciane. It’s been an honour to work with her at the Learning Disabilities Association of Wellington County. And some days you hit it out of the park, but some days you don’t. So, to go back and to reflect and come back and look at those supports for students.
Tamara Petresin (3:48)
Yeah, definitely. Well, we’re so excited to have you here on this podcast. You come with so much knowledge and expertise and life experience too with all of this. So, we’re really looking forward to understanding a bit more about learning disabilities. So, to just set the stage for our conversation, can you define what a learning disability is and how it differs from other types of disabilities?
Lisa Sanvido (4:07)
Fair enough. And thanks, Tamara. That’s a really great question. And I think I want to be very clear that these definitions, some of the supporting documents that I’m going to talk about today, I did not create these documents. I use the documents in my job as part of a system, provincial system, working with the Learning Disabilities Association of Ontario, just making sure that we’re all on the same page. The document I’m going to reference is from 2014 and its policy program memorandum. We call those PPM #8. So, the Ministry of Education is committed to fostering a caring and safe learning environment in Ontario schools to support the success and well-being of all students, including those with learning disabilities. And then in this memorandum, it goes on to talk about a ministry definition of what learning disabilities are. And, so, I’ll read a few of those. So, the Ministry of Education defines learning disability as:
One of a number of neurodevelopmental disorders that persistently and significantly has an impact on the ability to learn and use academic and other skills that affects the ability to perceive or process verbal or nonverbal information in an effective and accurate manner in students who have assessed intellectual abilities that are at least in the average range, results in academic underachievement that is inconsistent with the intellectual abilities of the student, which are at least in the average range, and/or academic achievement that can be maintained by the student only with extremely high levels of effort and/or with additional support, results in difficulties in the development and use of skills in one or more of the following areas, reading, writing, mathematics and work habits and learning skills may typically be associated with difficulties in one or more cognitive processes such as phonological processing, memory and attention, processing speed, perceptual motor processing, visual spatial processing, executive functions. And we look at that as self-regulation of behavior and emotions, planning, organizing of thoughts and activities, prioritizing decision making, may be associated with difficulties in social interaction, so difficulty in understanding social norms or the point of view of others with various other conditions or disorders or diagnosed or undiagnosed with other exceptionalities. It is not the result of a lack of acuity and hearing and or vision that has not been corrected. Intellectual disabilities, socioeconomic factors, cultural differences, lack of proficiency in the language of instruction, lack of motivation or effort, gaps in school attendance or inadequate opportunity to benefit from instruction.
So, that’s a lengthy one, but I think that’s a really important one. And I think you’re going to ask further questions around that. But I like to go back to that definition for both my work here and work with Learning Disabilities Association of Ontario.
Tamara Petresin (6:59)
Yeah, definitely. It is a wordy definition, but I feel like it’s important, right? Like, it really sets the stage for everything that it encompasses, because it’s not really straightforward, right? Like, there’s a lot of pieces to it. And it’s I feel like it also is very individual, in that, different students, of course, experience it differently. Different people experience these things differently. But what are some of the common misconceptions that exist about learning disabilities?
Lisa Sanvido (7:22)
Absolutely. And this work, we do a lot of collaboration and work around, you know, talking about the language and looking at kids and using kids’ strengths and assets and working with them. And I love your question, Tamara, because you had asked around some of the misconceptions. So, there are several common misconceptions, actually, about learning disabilities. So, one is a learning disability means my child isn’t smart. And this is completely false. So many children with learning disabilities have very high intelligence and strong skills in areas such as creativity, problem solving, critical thinking. Those are key skills that we need in today’s globalized society. A second misconception is that students with learning disabilities are just lazy and that they aren’t trying hard enough. And that’s simply not true. Learning disabilities are neurological. They’re not a matter of effort. Processing delays, working memory challenges, and executive functioning issues can make tasks harder, even when the student is trying their best. Another misconception, all students with learning disabilities learn in the same way. And learning disabilities, they exist on a spectrum. And so, for example, dyslexia, a learning disability that affects reading and language processing, while dyscalculia that impacts math skills. Each student’s learning profile is unique. And then a final misconception is that they can be outgrown. So, learning disabilities can be outgrown. They’re lifelong. They are manageable with the right supports, the right strategies, and the right accommodations for our students.
Tamara Petresin (8:59)
Yeah, for sure. I feel like the first few that you were talking about, I was like, “oh, this makes me really sad. “It’s hard to hear, right? Like, the ‘not smart’ and the ‘lazy,’ and, but it’s true, like, you do hear those things. And it’s just so important to be out there sharing this information, being like, ‘that is absolutely not true. It’s a neurological thing.’ It’s not related to effort. And just the focus on managing and actually, the outgrown part, I’m not going to lie, I didn’t realize that it was lifelong. I guess, because when you’re in that vacuum of school, it’s such a focus in school, and then you kind of get out of school, and you kind of forget that that still exists in the workplace too, right? The focus on the strategies and how to manage it, that makes a lot of sense. And we will talk more about that later too.
Lisa Sanvido (9:39)
And support, patience, compassion. I think those are key too, especially some of our, well, most of our learning disabilities are invisible, right? We talk a lot about that, and those advocacy skills, and again, coping strategies we’ll talk about soon for our kids.
Marciane Any (9:56)
What are some of the signs of a learning disability? And what steps should parents take if they suspect their child has one, but they haven’t been formally diagnosed yet?
Lisa Sanvido (10:06)
Fair enough. Common signs that we see with a learning disability. So, it may look like inconsistent academic performance. I think this one’s really important. As parents, and often as educators, we know our kids, so especially parents, they really know their kids, and they are seeing work being produced, they’re seeing report card marks, they’re getting evidence, and it just, in their gut, just doesn’t sit right. “This just doesn’t seem like my son or my daughter.” So that academic performance inconsistency. So, they’re doing well one day, they’re struggling the next, the inconsistency. Difficulty definitely with reading, writing, and math. Challenges with following multi-step instructions. So scaffolding, that instruction is important as an accommodation that we have in our teaching repertoire. Struggles with organization. Struggles with time management and struggles with focus. Avoidance of schoolwork or frustration with academic tasks. So, sometimes we will see kids, unfortunately, they may dig in, they may present some behavioral opposition or behavioral challenge, and again, it all goes back, “who is this wonderful child in front of us, and let’s really take a look at what this child brings, the assets this child has, and really, let’s focus on this young man, young lady.”
Marciane Any (11:31)
100%. When you were saying all of those signs, it’s very interesting, because quite a few kids came to mind, both in my family and outside, and it’s, just, I think because we don’t have a lot of these conversations. I mean, even before I started working for the LDA, I wasn’t having these kind of conversations, that now I can go back and I’m like, “wow, I wonder if that child had a learning disability,” or even for myself, there was a point in time where I was really struggling with reading, specifically, like, I can read something, but it takes me a while to actually, like, process what I was reading. I could read the same sentence five times, and I’m like, I just, “what is it saying? Did I just forget how to speak English or how to read English?” But it took a minute, and I had to find some other accommodations, like, for myself too, like, to listen to it while I also read it, or when I was just starting out reading pictures was just huge, just to try to connect the word with an image in my brain to actually be able to understand what I was reading, but, you know, when you talk about the frustration, the behavioural issues and the inconsistent academic performance, I related to that personally so much, because, of course, you’re going to be frustrated if you’re, like, “I’m trying, and I see all my peers, and they’re reading something, and they get it on the first try. What’s wrong with me?” It can be incredibly frustrating and scary, and again, if you don’t have the language to, as a parent or a caregiver, you also might see that, and you’re like, what do I do, you know? So I think it’s so important to be having these conversations, because just like you said, a lot of it can be invisible, and so we can have different students that, you know, it might just be attributed to a behavioral issue, but no, it could actually be a learning disability, and they just need some, sort of, you know, individualized support, really.
Tamara Petresin (13:32)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, and even, Marciane, as you were talking too, I was, like, and Lisa, as well, as you were listing some of the different signs and stuff, I was like, there also could be so much overlap here, so I can imagine that it’s really hard, and also maybe takes a bit of time as well before you get to the point of like, “oh, maybe this is a learning disability,” but, like Marciane was saying, it’s so important, because then when you have that diagnosis, then you can actually bring in all the formalized supports and things like that, which is hard without that, like, concrete diagnosis, and it feels like something, you know. Anytime we’re talking diagnosis, I feel like diagnosis is just a scary word on its own, right?
Like, diagnosis sounds like something is really, really wrong, and so I think talking about this helps and giving parents an idea of what to expect. So, could you just speak a little bit about what that process looks like for a learning disability, and, you know, what kinds of professionals are involved, and what parents can expect in this process of diagnosing a learning disability?
Lisa Sanvido (14:29)
Absolutely. Within our boards, so our boards have special education plans, so you’ll always find at a Board of Education, their Special Education Plan, which will walk you through, not necessarily the process in diagnosing, but it will walk you through whether you are looking at formal or informal diagnosis. So, an informal would be an in-school team, for example, and that in-school team may present data, may present evidence such as student work. They may all have a piece of information around the student, so an in-school team may be an administrator, it may be your student success lead in elementary, you may have the SERT, the Special Education Resource Teacher, you may have a Head of Special Education in high school, you may have specialized, so a psychologist or psychological associate, and they can all discuss what evidence they see. They may do an informal diagnosis through an assessment. Here in our Board, we may use a “Woodcock Johnson,” for example, with reading, writing, math, and that would give you more of an informal diagnosis with an IEP to support outlining the environmental assessment and instructional accommodations to support the child. If you were looking more formal, a more formal process would be done through a psychologist or through a psychological associate, and there’s a cost for that, and it’s a bit of a grey area, because within boards, often we had the ability to support families with that cost, a few families to support them with the cost of those psych assessments, we’ll call that for lack of better terms, psychological or educational psychological assessment, as a board with dwindled resources we find we’re not able to do that. So, we try and look at benefit plans, we try and support being as objective as possible, that these are the institutions that may be able to provide those educational testing diagnosis for you, or the testing for you. So cognitive testing, academic achievement testing, executive functioning assessments, and interviews and observations, that is the data that the psychological associate or psychologist will collect, and those interviews may be with parents, with teachers, with the student themself, but the observations may come from the teacher, what are you seeing in the classroom. “Can you give me an example of this behavior? Can you give me an example of did you see? Any triggers? Did you see the ABCs, the antecedents, the behavior, and the next step?” The process itself can take a bit of time, it may take several hours to do some of this testing, to collate and analyze the data that you do have, created or brought together from multiple sources. And then when the psychological associate or psychologist puts all that data together and analyzes that, the detailed report is what the families can, they don’t have to, they can share that information in the detailed report with the schools to set up the accommodations through the IEP tool. I say they don’t have to, it’s their choice, right, and some of that is very private, right, so sometimes they may redact some of that information, but generally when we see some of the test scores, the observed data, the tests, the information, the interviews, it does help us to create those accommodations and the supports for kids in class.
Tamara Petresin (18:05)
That’s actually super interesting. I didn’t even know the ‘formal and the informal’, I didn’t realize that there were two paths to that, which is really interesting. Well, hopefully that helps too with a little bit of getting those IEPs in place too. I imagine it’d be quite the backlog if it was just the one way.
Lisa Sanvido (18:19)
There’s another resource, too, and we try and steer, we don’t always go towards this, but often medical, so, when we have medical diagnosis, we can often use that as well. Where I’m going with this is, so, if we have medical documentation, we often use that to support an IEP creation. A concussion for example, we are by law bound to create an IEP when we have a concussion diagnosis.
Marciane Any (18:42)
Oh, interesting.
Lisa Sanvido (18:43)
Yeah, and I just want to be careful that we analyze every piece of data that we have, whether it’s medical, cognitive, and creating and implementing those reports. I just want to be very clear on that.
Marciane Any (18:56)
That makes sense. Again, I love that we’re having this conversation, because I didn’t even know, even, long beforehand, like, an IEP, I had never heard that term before, and I think it’s so cool that you have both pathways, that there’s a lot that you can do with the school, since they’re the ones who interact with the child most of the day. And then you can also work with professionals, but sometimes that can be quite costly, so it’s cool that you have both options, and there really is this beautiful opportunity for households and schools to work together, to come up with something that’s beneficial for the students, so I think that’s awesome. And so, with talking about the school system, can you walk us through some of the key supports available for students with learning disabilities in both elementary and secondary schools, and how do they help with their learning process?
Lisa Sanvido (19:51)
Yeah, there was one piece I just wanted to finish with there that we talked about with the formal process and the informal process. As educators, I want to be really clear, we are not medical professionals, we are not trained psychologists, so within our education setting, if we do the diagnostic, such as a Woodcock Johnson on reading, writing, math, or literacy, numeracy, we have trained, specifically trained [staff], anytime we’re doing diagnostics with reading, with writing, with math, they are all done by staff that have been trained in that field as well. Same with mental health, we are not trained in working with mental health. We always refer to the experts, such as the psychological associate, and in the case of mental health, we always want to refer to those practitioners that are trained, so I want to make sure we’re really clear there. With informal, we are trained in those diagnostics before we deliver.
Tamara Petresin (20:44)
You’ve mentioned this Woodcock Johnson, is that just a test?
Lisa Sanvido (20:47)
Yeah, there’s a few diagnostics. There are OCAs, Ontario comprehension assessment, Gates-MacGinitie, there’s a few diagnoses we look at with reading, and then we also have Woodcock Johnson that can add reading, writing, math. Yeah, we want to make sure our staff are trained on those. SRA is something we look at, Sick Kids Delivers, an Empower program, and our staff are trained on how to administer some of the diagnostics with that. But the Woodcock Johnson, it is an assessment that we want to, for sure, ensure we have trained staff to deliver that. And we do have quite a wait list, so staff may say, “I’m noticing this particular child is experiencing these concerns,” and they haven’t had a formal diagnosis through a psychologist or psychological associate. So, we will often put them on a wait list, because we have very few trained staff to deliver those assessments. But we get there, we get there.
Tamara Petresin (21:44)
I’m just curious if you can just comment on the prevalence of learning disabilities, because I imagine as parents are listening to this, I feel like a lot of things can feel very isolating, and I imagine that when you have a child with a learning disability, it can feel very isolating, and especially that feeling of like, ‘oh, my child’s the only one that’s experiencing this,” and things like that, right? So, is there any kind of data or information that you can share on the prevalence of learning disabilities?
Lisa Sanvido (22:13)
There is, for sure, data. Actually, Marciane may have more of that data than I do. I don’t have that. I could tell you what that percentage would be. I won’t get into that either, just around the confidentiality of the school. But I can tell you, it’s very prevalent. We do have a number of students that do have learning disabilities. Now then, this goes back to thinking now big picture. Is this a school system issue or a systemic issue? Are we designing schools back into the industrial age? Are we truly looking at the learner in front of us, looking through a strength or asset-based approach when we work with our students? Those always lead to bigger questions for me, right? You have a number of students with learning disabilities, for sure. Would you say one in four, is that maybe some of the data that the Learning Disabilities Association of Ontario would have produced, Marciane?
Marciane Any (23:11)
40% of Ontario students have a learning disability. And, in Guelph, that number is around 4,500 and above. But that statistic is even low, because I believe when they looked at that, they didn’t include students who also have ADHD. So, the number is a lot higher than that. And then just with people in general, it’s one in 10 people in Ontario.
Tamara Petresin (23:38)
Yeah, I feel like it just brings about, like, this is a common thing, right?
Lisa Sanvido (23:42)
So, one in 10, 40%, yeah. Yeah.
Marciane Any (23:47)
And these are all also pre-pandemic numbers and these statistics are now coming up on 11 years old. So, it’ll be interesting to see the new data that comes out, just how much more, especially because we understand a lot more about learning disabilities and the different ways they can present themselves. I’m interested, but also nervous to see how large those numbers may be. Yeah. Can you walk us through some of the key supports available for students with learning disabilities in both elementary and secondary schools? And how do they help in the learning process?
Lisa Sanvido (24:25)
Yeah, absolutely. I think what’s great about our special education documents with each board is they take a look at the process around the IEP and supporting students through the IEP. But the IEP is the tool. Every teacher that child has, has access to that IEP. But then what does the whole school look like in terms of support? So, I hear you. Remember, I’m in a secondary school. I know a little bit about the elementary school through both as an educator and as a parent. In elementary school, we look at early intervention. So, looking at some of that classroom data, social skill data, cognitive data, connections home with parents, logbooks, emails back and forth, small group instruction, especially with our resource teachers. So, our special education resource teachers are CERTs. They are far more engaged one-on-one with students in elementary school than in secondary school. And I say that just because of the sheer volume. So, in our school, for example, our collective agreements outline the number of resource teachers we have with a student body that’s well over 2100. So, I can tell you that there are maybe six to eight throughout the day. We would have six full time.
Okay, assistive technology. So, I mean, we’ve seen technology growth exponential, grow exponentially through the years, especially in our COVID period, where we pivoted to a lot of online learning. There are amazing programs out there. So, Speech to Text, Google Read&Write. Those are two that we use. We use Google platforms here within Upper Grand. And the Google platform has Speech to Text written right in or built right into it. Fantastic technology. In secondary school, it looks a little different. So, accommodations through the IEP. That’s also available in elementary school. We have courses. So, we range in grades nine and 10. We have learning strategies courses. Because as the learner gets older, with age comes responsibility. Responsibility around self-advocacy. So those learning strategy courses teach students about self-advocacy and their executive functioning skills around their organization. Their time management. And then in high school, we have an actual resource room. So, our six staff would work in different periods to support students in the resource room for a host of accommodations. So, providing scribing. So, asking the question and maybe writing the response for the child. Helping with reading, helping with writing. So, we have resource teachers that will work through that with the students in accessing the curriculum and helping students through the curriculum and the evaluation components of their courses.
Marciane Any (27:14)
That’s awesome. It’s exciting to hear of all of the supports that are available for students. It’s funny, like Text to Speech, I still use that. Like, Speechify, all day long. There’s a lot to read and process. And again, like, my brain, like, I’ve just learned that helps me. I need to not only read it, but to hear it. That’s how I can fully digest it. And then remember what I read afterwards. So, it’s not in one ear and out the other. And then I also, you know, we have different programs at the LDA. And one of them is about the transitioning into secondary school. And a huge part of that is understanding how they learn. And, also, a lot of self-advocacy. And, so, it’s so great to hear how much confidence they feel afterwards when they finally understand and have a bit more autonomy over this process and how they learn things like that so that they can then advocate for themselves for years to come. Because as we’ve talked about, this isn’t something that’s outgrown. So, it’s a great skill before you get into the workforce. So, that when you start working, you can also advocate for what you need. Because again, I will need some things to be able to do what I need. And there’s nothing wrong with that. All of us move in the world in a way that we can try to make things easier for ourselves. Why not? Why struggle if you don’t have to?
So, I just think that’s amazing they have so many supports. But this process can still feel overwhelming, especially for the parents and the child as well. But for parents who might feel overwhelmed by the IEP or the accommodation process, what guidance would you offer to help them advocate for their child effectively?
Lisa Sanvido (29:00)
I think always have that confidence that you know your child better than anyone. And a system, we do have the restrictions of the system, right? You may be told some things, but always, always understand who your child is. And believe and have hope in your child. Be your child’s champion. Start always with their strengths. The IEP isn’t just about their challenges. It highlights their abilities, and it can be built on. It’s a fluid document. It’s not a one-stop shop. And you should look through that document every year. And you should communicate that document with the teachers. Elementary, secondary school, work with the child’s teachers. Ask questions. Be an active participant and keep that communication open. We have parent-teacher interviews in both high school and elementary school. But always keep that line of communication going. If you’re not hearing from your child’s teacher, in our dispute process that we have within our special education agreements in the board, I think that’s okay to have that conversation with administrators and just say, “you know, I haven’t heard from my child’s teacher, I’d really like to connect, can we have a meeting?” And always be that champion, always.
Marciane Any (30:20)
100%. Again, I feel like we say this often, but we also can’t say this enough: parents are superheroes, and they do so much, and we appreciate it. Like, I’m remembering when I was in school and my mom would come and advocate for me because I wasn’t performing at a level that, you know, was expected or average. And it was, like, you know, asking for extra time, asking for extensions on assignments, or just, you know, I remember the first email I ever had to send to a teacher to ask for accommodation. I was so nervous, and my mom was just there to help me and to say, “this is how you’re going to perform your best. And this is what you need,” to also see it as a need, because it can seem, you know, from the student perspective, like I don’t want to be a burden, maybe I just need to try harder or all these things. And it’s like, “no, you’re literally trying as hard as you can. Let’s get you to a level where it’s not, you know, exhausting and you can actually shine.” And from then on out, it’s been great. And I’ve seen that with my siblings, cousins, different things like that, just having parents be our cheerleader does so much more than I think parents truly understand. And as we get older, we just, we never forget it. So, thank you parents for being so kind and being advocates because we appreciate it.
Lisa Sanvido (31:47)
That was well said, Marciane. Absolutely. And, and just to forgive those parents, that they struggle, like everybody has, you know, has to exist within society and make ends meet. And yeah, forgive parents that sometimes, yeah, the priorities have to be, you know, living and ensuring that everyone is safe and healthy.
Tamara Petresin (32:08)
And yeah, for sure. There’s a lot of grace there to be given as well too, right? Like parents have a lot on their plates and life is expensive and hard and stressful. And, you know, sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to get through the day. And that is fine. You did your best. You did your best, not even your best. You just did. And that’s good. Yeah, for sure.
And even, too, Marciane, what you were saying as well, too, about, you know, parents advocating for us and how incredible that is, too. I feel it’s also just such a good way of modeling advocacy, right? Like, ‘cause children are sponges, right? They see their parents advocating for them and then they’re going to learn too, one day, like, to be able to advocate for themselves, too. And how powerful that is as well. Like, you know, they always say it’s the little things, right? That do add up when you’re older, you remember what it’s like, how it felt and also to do it for yourself, too. Because at the end of the day, we always have to be our biggest advocates.
Lisa Sanvido (33:02)
Well said. Well said.
Tamara Petresin (33:04)
And we hinted at this earlier, Marciane, you were talking about the transition from elementary to high school and how this can be really overwhelming for many students, but especially those with learning disabilities, right? Because things are very different from an elementary school to a secondary school setting. What are some key steps that parents and then also educators can take to help make this transition smoother?
Lisa Sanvido (33:24)
Well, that’s a great question. The questions here are amazing. Thank you. In elementary, the key is that gradual exposure. So, and secondary too. So, let’s be honest, in a K – 12 platform, the more students feel comfortable in their environment, you know, confidence goes a long way in building the bridges into school and feeling safe and supported and enjoying the learning process. So, in elementary, maybe the teacher works with the parent the last week of August. Maybe you set that up in May. Maybe we do tours of the school. We go in May or June… gradual exposure to the school. When I was in Student Success, we had some surveys sent out to our Grade 8s to find out what was the greatest thing that a high school could do to make them feel comfortable coming to school or coming into Grade 9 in the school. And the one thing the elementary students said is, “invite us to your sporting events, invite us to your art celebrations, invite us to what goes on in the school.” And we started to do that, and kids would come, and it actually was really positive. And it still is very positive. The gradual exposure, getting back to that, taking the photos of the classroom, maybe sending those photos to the parent and then the child can see the photos of the classroom. Maybe the last week of August, there’s a visit, you come, and you see the school and you walk around. Bring a snack with you. So, you see what that’s like. You see where maybe a cubby or a locker is. The gradual exposure is great. Parents and teachers naming, “this is where this is, this is where this is, this is where if you have any questions, you can come.” Working around self-advocacy. So, helping students ask for help, that’s another piece. And ensuring that the student knows where they can go if they do need some help or they’re not feeling safe at school. We do this in secondary too. We get kids in for our events as we mentioned earlier, but we also get them doing visits, visits into the school all throughout the school year. So, they see what a school year looks like. We have an arts day. We have a tech day. We have ‘take your child to work’ day for Grade 9s within the province. So, we have lots of days where kids can have that exposure to the school. Having those conversations at home and bridging that transition between elementary, between secondary, between summer vacation and back to school in the fall. I think that’s really key for success.
Tamara Petresin (35:44)
Yeah, those are honestly really helpful tips. Honestly, it’s putting me back to when I was in Grade 8 and going into Grade 9, a new high school. I remember that I was so scared that I just wouldn’t know where I was going and that I would get lost. That was my number one fear. I feel like I can still feel that fear today. And at the end of the day too, it doesn’t really matter, you’re going to find your way, you ask people. Everyone is really helpful and kind. But I feel like that gradual exposure piece too. It reminded me of my high school, what they used to do, I don’t know if they still do, but they used to have a day where the Grade 8s would come and we would do different tech kind of things. I remember we did a really cool Photoshop thing and that was like, “oh my gosh, you can work with Photoshop and do a photo shoot.” And we went to the kind of tech wing, and we made rings, like metal rings. And that was also so cool. And just, like, feeling special, right? You’re, like, “oh my gosh, I’m in high school. It felt like such a big deal.” But then I also feel like I was so much more comfortable, because I’m, like, “okay, I’ve been there. I’ve been in this space, right?” And so that gradual exposure, I was just bringing back memories from my time being in that transitional period too.
Lisa Sanvido (36:45)
Wonderful, wonderful. Our tech teachers, they’re fantastic. Yeah, yeah.
Tamara Petresin (36:50)
And it’s just so cool because you don’t really get that exposure to those things in elementary school. So, then, it’s like, your world really is like opening up, right? When you’re getting into that stage in high school, in so much more independence and all of that as well, too. So, it’s really exciting, but at the same time, I know it can be really scary, too, for kids. Like, it’s scary for everyone. We’ve all been there.
Lisa Sanvido (37:08)
Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said, well said.
Tamara Petresin (37:12)
When we talk about, you know, learning disabilities and IEPs and things like that, how does that level of support change when a student moves from the elementary school to a secondary school? And what should families be prepared for, in this sense, with the amount or the type of support?
Lisa Sanvido (37:29)
So, elementary support, there may be a lot more staff-directed support with students. So, staff may take the lead more in elementary school. In secondary school, you may find that we try and [teach] the self-advocacy, and we work with students on accessing resource, accessing supports. What we’re trying to do is minimize any stigma the child might feel and making sure that they feel they’re comfortable in a safe, supported space. So, checking in with kids, but not, “what is it you need with your learning?” Not a, you know, aggressive or loud or, you know, public display, but just, “you’re always welcome to use resource if you’d like. They can provide some supports down there for you.” Please just work with me and talk to me and those check-ins that are really important and maintaining the dignity of the child, which, yeah, that’s key.
Marciane Any (38:30)
I appreciate that because I think there’s so much, and I won’t go too into it, but, like, there’s already a lot that you have to deal with in school just without giving an extra reason to be picked on. So, I think, you know, the careful attention to not be like loud about it in a negative sense, like, “oh my, do you need help again?” You know, X, Y, Z, that’s really helpful. It just respects the person, and it honours the dignity that we should be, you know, offering to everybody. And, so, I think, you know, I just, I appreciate that piece to also protect the child, too. Yeah.
Lisa Sanvido (39:10)
Thank you.
Marciane Any (39:11)
What are some ways that, you know, we’ve touched on how this can be a very stressful time for everyone, focusing on the students, what are some ways that educators can help students manage stress or anxiety related to their learning disability in school?
Lisa Sanvido (39:29)
I think those one-on-one conversations are key. We have amazing guidance counselors. We have amazing resource staff. Our teachers are, they’re wonderful to seek to understand before being understood conversations. “Connect before you direct.” Like a lot of those catchphrases, we use, but the connection with kids and the relationships that are built, that’s the key. That’s what builds the collaboration and the support of learning and kids feeling safe and supported at school. Right?
Marciane Any (40:02)
100%. When you said that, it brought to mind a teacher, a very specific teacher that, I feel so bad because I’m forgetting their name, but I know exactly what they look like, it’s been some years, but I vividly remember just opening up to this teacher specifically. They weren’t the usual like homeroom teacher that knows more of my accommodations, what I need, XYZ, but they just presented themselves as someone who really wanted to listen and cared about us in general. And so, I just ended up telling them more about my learning challenges and why I needed accommodations and even a bit about what’s going on at home. And they were like, “no wonder you’re stressed.” Like, you know, “do you need extra time? You know, if you need extra time to eat or something like that, because you’re trying to get extra help during school, you can eat in my class. If you need extra time during exam, you can do this.” Like they were just so open, and it was awesome just to feel really heard. No, “tell me more and asking questions.” And it just seemed like they really wanted to get to know me as a person and help. And it made school become so much more enjoyable to go to and less of a burden because it’s just, it’s a lot of extra energy when you have to do these different things to try to keep up with everyone else who doesn’t need to do those things. It felt great to actually have a teacher that just cared and listened. And I was like, “okay, I’m excited to go to their class now. And I’m excited for school because they’ll help me out.”
Tamara Petresin (41:38)
Yeah. Teachers honestly are incredible. And they really do make a profound impact on our lives. I have some teachers too, that honestly shaped me into the person I am today. And I’m still even in touch with some of my high school teachers now, like, we text, we meet up for dinner, which is awesome. Like, sports coaches and stuff like that as well, too. And they really do make such a big impact. And sometimes I don’t even know if they know it because we grow up and we leave and we rarely come back. But they really, really do. And it’s really incredible. The kind of people who work in those professions where they really do care to help students. And so, it’s so nice to be in that kind of supportive environment.
Lisa Sanvido (42:12)
Oh, you two, you two are amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Because that’s true. I think a lot of our staff go home every night and wonder, you know, “did I do the right thing? Did I, did I act the way that I did?” And that’s wonderful feedback. Thank you.
Tamara Petresin (42:26)
Yeah. Yeah. No, there’s definitely some great, great, great teachers out there doing incredible work. Yeah. And we’ve talked a little bit about like minimizing stigma and navigating those feelings when we have students with learning disabilities. And I can imagine too, when you are a student with a learning disability, it can feel isolating, but also like you’re different, you know, something’s wrong with me, those like misconceptions and stuff like that. And those are hard feelings to navigate around. And so, how, maybe speaking as you’re from your background as like an educator, but also maybe experiences as a parent too, how would parents go about navigating those kinds of conversations? ‘Because it is really hard, you know, when you have this IEP that’s, you know, with these accommodations and it’s supportive, but I imagine sometimes there are situations where students are maybe resistant to that help and to those accommodations because it can, you know, all these feelings of being different and stuff like that. So, if you have any experiences or comments on how parents can maybe navigate some of those challenges? ‘Because it is difficult.
Lisa Sanvido (43:26)
It is. And I think so elementary and secondary are going to be very different. So, through a secondary lens, when kids are, you know, between the ages of 14 and 18 years of age, sometimes 19 up to 21 for some of our students, I think the key is listen. So, seek to hear and understand what’s going on and then ask for permission before telling. If it’s a parent that will come in and is upset around how the IEP is implemented or not being implemented, that’s a different story where we have the dispute process that we can walk through and where we ask the questions and determine what supports are there. “What do you see that’s happening? What would you like to see what’s happening?”
And I find that the number one question at the end of the day, whether it’s in the classroom with our students or with our parents, is “what is it we can do to support you and to feel heard and to feel valued?” So, what is it that you would like, or what can we do to help?
Marciane Any (44:28)
100 %. I feel like a lot of it, coming as the student, is we need everyone to be there for each other. It’s overwhelming to be the child. It’s overwhelming to be the teacher. It’s overwhelming to be the parent. And we just need, you know, us to be there for each other, be a listening ear, because sometimes you just have bad days and sometimes you just need to cry. And there’s a lot of instances where I was just frustrated because it was either taking me too long to do something or I just, I couldn’t understand that I couldn’t get it. And it was like, you know what? This is not a class we’re going to get an A or B in and it’s okay. I gave it like my best shot. And you know, look at us now, it worked out, but still, you know, it can be hard sometimes. And sometimes you just have bad days, but it’s great to know that you don’t have to have bad days alone, that we could just all be there for each other.
Tamara Petresin (45:19)
Yeah. And that those supports exist. Honestly, that’s so true. And even, Lisa, what you said about ask before telling, like, I feel like that’s so key too, because I feel like a lot of the time, I mean, anytime someone’s talking to us about, you know, challenges or issues or hard emotions, I feel like we jump into like problem-solving mode. I do anyways, all the time, someone comes to me and I’m like, “okay, this is what you’re going to do. “And then they’re like, “no, I just want to be heard.” You know, sometimes it really is important to just sit back and listen and really understand it before kind of jumping into that problem-solving mode. Sometimes it’s not helpful. So, I felt like that was a really, really good piece of advice for parents.
Lisa Sanvido (45:54)
It’s hard sometimes, especially as a parent, it’s hard because you just want the very best for your children. You want the very best for kids, you know, you work in a system that may have constraints or boundaries, obstacles. It’s really hard to do. But yeah, asking those questions and then waiting for that response. Yeah, yeah. No, I’m with you, Tamara. I’m with you.
Tamara Petresin (46:16)
What would you say to a parent who feels overwhelmed or lost because they don’t have all the answers?
Lisa Sanvido (46:22)
I often try, definitely try to relate, you know, and “I’m sorry, I’m sorry that you’re going through this. I hear you. Like, you know, I’m a parent too. We’re in this together”. I think we’re all trying to do the very best that we can. I think, at the end of the day, and I wish I was more like this as a mom, I always have hope. Like, I always think we are going to get there. The school system has many, many wonderful things. But at the end of the day, what matters is the family bond. What matters is helping your child through happy existence within life. And we have those moments of adversity. But I think having the hope that we’re going to get there. That’s always what I try. Like, “let’s try this. And if this doesn’t work, let’s try plan B and plan C,” that we just never give up. We always have options. And there’s never a closed door, especially when it comes into outcomes. And always, always, always maintaining hope. And always striving towards those high expectations and high outcomes for kids. Always have that. Always with parents.
Marciane Any (47:29)
I love that. There’s so much hope to be had. Like, you know, coming from the background I did, immigrant parents, and grew up in the 90s, all that stuff, like, these conversations just weren’t really happening. And so, the fact that they’re happening now, so much hope. Because there’s help out there. There’s less of a stigma. There’s still quite a ways’ we can go, of course, with anything. But things are looking up. And that is something to be, honestly, really celebrated. So, I’m excited, again, with conversations like this. I can imagine it can help so many parents and caregivers be like, “wow, I didn’t know that.” And then they can actually access the supports that they need.
Lisa Sanvido (48:17)
And don’t look at the deficits on anyone. “So, my child can’t do this.” And I said, “yes, but your child is so articulate. They are so strong in character. “And yeah, like, just never, never lose sight of what a child brings to the table.
Tamara Petresin (48:30)
And yeah. That’s good life advice in general to hold on to hope and then never lose sight of what makes each of us amazing. Because we all have that within us.
Marciane Any (48:39)
What are some, you know, as we’re talking about how emotionally and even physically demanding all of this can be, what are some self-care tips that you have that could help parents who might be struggling, you know, balancing and juggling all of this?
Lisa Sanvido (48:54)
In COVID especially, we looked [at screens] it’s okay to take a break from all this technology. It’s just really okay to take a breather. And we still look at that, you know, get the devices, block those people that are not serving a positive influence or serving a positive position in life. Stressing the importance of dialing down the technology, taking those breaks, having those conversations, setting those times and priorities, especially just ending family day and remembering that its really okay to have your space. It’s really okay to take a break from all of this confusion, technology, these distractions. It’s really okay to do that.
Marciane Any (49:43)
It really is. Honestly, taking a technology break, I’m always an advocate for it because as helpful as it is, and I love that we have all this technology, it can get very overwhelming, especially social media and the comparative piece that we’ve talked about so often. If you’re on, you know, parenting vlogs and learning vlogs. And it’s, like, “why isn’t my child doing this? Or why am I not being able to do this as a parent?” Or I even went down, like, teacher TikTok rabbit hole once. And I was like, oh, I can imagine if I was an educator and my classroom didn’t look like this or all my students weren’t, you know, performing like this or we didn’t have all cool individualized handshakes. Maybe I too would feel very overwhelmed. So, it can be great to, like, pull back and just be, like, whatever I’m doing is good enough. I’m fine. Comparison is the thief of joy. So, I think unplugging can be very, very helpful at times.
Lisa Sanvido (50:40)
Take that breather and stop the comparison. Just be you. Run your race.
Tamara Petresin (50:46)
Yeah, that’s so true. It’s such a good tip. Well, as we near the end of our podcast, our time together, are there any local organizations or resources that you can share that support students with learning disabilities and their families?
Lisa Sanvido (50:59)
The wonderful Marciane Any has created this amazing resource bank and redesigned our website with the Learning Disabilities Association of Wellington County, as well, as the provincial Dyslexia Canada; they have amazing resources as well. Boards of Education, they have special education sites as well. I think your provincial organizations, they’re safe. Your Boards of Education, they provide resources. The key is to get to know those people in your buildings, like your elementary schools, your high schools, get to know those people, get their numbers, get their email addresses, start and keep that communication going. And always, always check in with your child. Always see how they’re doing. They’re your greatest resource.
Tamara Petresin (51:44)
Yeah, for sure. That’s super helpful. And we’ll be sure to link some of those other resources that you mentioned in our podcast description, so our listeners can find that easily. But to close out the podcast, we like to give families “three take-home tips.” So, considering everything that we’ve talked about today, what are three tips that can be shared with our listeners to help them navigate this world of learning disabilities?
Lisa Sanvido (52:04)
Beautiful. Awesome. Love it.
It’s positive. It’s proactive. Focus on strengths. Focus on who you are, your core values, and those strengths that you bring. And don’t lose those.
Support independence. This one’s really tough. So, with age comes the responsibility and the advocacy. So, independence is key at home, at school.
And finally, encourage a growth mindset. Hope. Always keep hope in the back of your mind. We are going to get there. That pathway is going to be positive, and we’re all going to get there. We’re all going to run our race.
Marciane Any (52:39)
Absolutely. I love that. We each have our own race to run. We’re not competing against each other. I love that.
Thank you so much, Lisa, honestly, for your time chatting with us about learning disabilities and sharing your wealth of knowledge and expertise with us here on the Healthy Habits, Happy Homes podcast.
Lisa Sanvido (52:57)
Thanks, the two of you. Thank you for the work that you’ve done. This is just so positive. Thank you. Thank you.
Tamara Petresin (53:02)
You’ve provided us with such helpful tips, and we really hope that our listeners can take this knowledge with them going forward. We’ll see you next time.
Lisa Sanvido (53:09)
Thank you.