Episode 66: Making Cents of Talking Money with Kids with Robin Taub 

In this episode, we chatted with Robin Taub. Robin is a Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA, CA) with a long history of working in the financial industry. Currently, she is a keynote speaker and an award-winning author. Her latest book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent and Money-Smart for Life, gives parents the information, strategies and inspiration they need to teach their kids about money. Don’t miss listening in on this great conversation! 

Find resources discussed in this episode here: Robin Taub’s Further Resources

Find Robin on her website, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook!

Healthy Habits, Happy Homes Podcast
Season 7, Episode 66
Guest: Robin Taub

Marciane (0:05)
Hello, welcome to the Healthy Habits, Happy Homes podcast hosted by the Guelph Family Health Study.

Tamara (0:14)
If you’re interested in the most recent research and helpful tips for healthy, balanced living for you and your family, then this podcast is for you. In each episode, we will bring you topics that are important to your growing family and guests who will share their expertise and experience with you.

Marciane (0:31)
Our quick tips will help your family build healthy habits for a happy home.

Tamara (0:41)
Welcome back to the Healthy Habits, Happy Homes podcast. I’m Tamara.

Marciane (0:45)
And, I’m Marciane.

Tamara (0:47)
And, today we’re excited to have Robin Taub join us. Robin Taub is a chartered professional accountant with a long history of working in the financial industry. Currently, she is a keynote speaker and an award-winning author.
Her latest book, The Wisest Investment, Teaching Your Kids to be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life, gives parents the information, strategies, and inspiration they need to teach their kids about money. We’re excited to have her on to discuss ways to raise financially literate and healthy children. Welcome, Robin.

Robin (1:14)
Thank you. And, I’m excited to be here with both of you.

Tamara (1:17)
Awesome. To get us started, can you tell us a bit about yourself, your current role, and how your education and experiences led you to where you are now?

Robin (1:25)
Yes, I’d be happy to. So, as you mentioned in your introduction, I am a chartered professional accountant by training. But, I like to say that I’m not your typical accountant because I don’t do the kind of work that people normally would associate with accounting.
For the last 20 years or so, I’ve been involved in financial literacy. And, it really came out of the 2008 global financial crisis. Canada established a task force to look into the issue of financial literacy and to see what, as a country, what we could do because it was identified as a critical life skill and important to Canadian economic growth and prosperity.
So, coming out of that, I was involved with an organization that did some research that found that 78% of parents had tried to teach their kids about money. But, two-thirds didn’t feel they’d be in particular successful at it. And, more than half didn’t know what information they needed.
So, that’s the genesis of the book. So, the very first edition of the book came out in around 2011. And, that’s what I do today, is basically try to educate people about the importance of educating and empowering the next generation to be responsible, independent, and money smart for life.
And, it’s through the book; it’s collaborations with great partners and financial institutions that also have a similar mission. It’s speaking; it’s doing podcasts like this. It’s just really trying to get the word out.

Marciane (2:57)
That’s awesome. It’s so needed. And, as you shared, I’m not even surprised by those stats because even in our circles, it’s just, like, “financial literacy, how do we grow in that?”
Like, what are all these terms that we might hear? But, like, how do we actually apply it to our everyday lives? So, we’re really excited to talk about this.

Robin (3:16)
Yeah, and you guys are recent students, too. So, you know, like, the more recent research shows that students, the majority of students are relying on their parents and family members as their main source of financial advice. We can talk about if that’s the case with you, but just 15% of parents talk to their kids about money or household finances more than once a week.
So, there’s this gap. And, research also shows that kids who are taught about money at home feel more confident and optimistic about their financial futures and better prepared for the decisions that they’ll face. I also want to mention that I have two kids myself.
They’re now in their late 20s. But, this was something I really felt was important for them to learn and understand for young age. And, because of my background, I was comfortable doing that.
But, a lot of parents are not. So, that’s one of the reasons I’m doing the work that I do.

Marciane (4:07)
That’s great. That’s great. What exactly is financial literacy?
And, why is it important to develop, you know, the financial literacy skills?

Robin (4:16)
That’s a great question to start with, to sort of set the context. And, as I mentioned, that task force in 2008 came up with a definition of financial literacy, which is having the knowledge, skills and confidence to make responsible financial decisions at every life stage. So: knowledge, skills and confidence.
And, financial literacy can also be called financial capability. There’s different terminology that’s used for it. And, the reason it’s important is because it is a basic life skill.
Without that, you can fall into bad habits that become difficult to break as you get older, like living beyond your means. So, it really is a critical life skill. The government did recognize that.
Parents who, you know, learned the hard way and have made financial mistakes in their lives also recognize how important it is to teach it to their kids to maybe try and avoid some of that. Money stress can also lead to physical and mental health issues. Financial stress is the number one source of stress, greater than stress over relationships or work or health even.
So, and, as I said, it can lead to things like high blood pressure, heart disease, migraines, all kinds of physical manifestations as well as anxiety and mental health issues. So, it’s so important to teach our kids so that maybe they can avoid some of that.

Tamara (5:43)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it really is, like, how you said, it’s a basic life skill. There’s a lot to it though, too, like knowledge, skills and confidence, right?
So, the earlier you start, I’m sure that gets easier. And, I’m even just thinking back to like my education. So, I’m born and raised in Guelph. So, I went through the public school system here. I think that for us, like, in Grade 11, it was, like, part of like our math, but, I don’t remember ever having to take like a full-on finance course. I chose to take one when I was an undergrad as, like, an elective, which, like, you know, I think that at that time I was just kind of taking it to get the credit versus actually appreciating the course.
But, now that I’m in my late twenties, I’m like, “oh, this is like really important.” And, I wish that I spent a bit more time learning about it earlier, but it’s never too late, I guess.

Robin (6:27)
You just brought up so many good points. If I may, yes, let’s start with the last one. It’s never too late. And, I want parents to feel reassured with that. Sure. It’s definitely ideal to start early because this is something that you build on as your kids progress and get older, but it’s never too late. And, another reason a lot of parents don’t tackle this with their kids is because they feel, like, they’re not good with money themselves, or they feel shamed or they’re worried that they’ve made mistakes. But, you don’t have to be perfect to teach your kids. We all make mistakes and they’re always learning opportunities.
And, this is something that you and your kids can learn together. But, it is cool that you’ve got some of this in school. It has been integrated into the curriculum in Ontario where we live for quite a while now.
There have been some standalone modules like in grade 10 or 11, but beginning in 2025 in Ontario, you’re going to have to pass a financial literacy test to graduate from high school. That’s amazing. Pass with a 70%. So, that’s new. And, I think that’s a really great step in the right direction. However, I still think parents, grandparents, mentors have a really important role to play.

Tamara (7:37)
Yeah, definitely. So, with that, what are some of the main healthy financial habits that kids should be learning?

Robin (7:43)
Right. So, in my book, The Wisest Investment, I talk about 11 Healthy Habits. And, the idea is if parents can model these habits and adopt them for themselves and be good financial role models for their kids and their kids will learn by example.
So, starting off with some really simple ones, it’s like knowing where you stand financially. Do you know what your net worth is, which is everything you own less everything you owe. Do you have a good understanding of your cash flow?
So, what’s coming in? The money that you make, you know, as students, you might not be earning a lot. It might be more on the other side, which is how much money is going out.
And, that’s like essentially your budget or your spending plan. So, getting a handle on those things. As I mentioned earlier, the importance of living within your means so that you are spending less than you’re making and saving that difference and investing it for the long run.
And, also other habits would include paying yourself first. So, that’s that means making saving a priority by taking a little bit off the top every time you get paid and ideally making that an automatic transfer and setting it aside in a separate account so that it can grow and you’re not tempted to spend it. So, just these little things, knowing the difference between needs and wants, learning how to delay gratification.
There’s so many, as I mentioned, there’s 11 in the book. So, the earlier you start with habits, the better, because habits are like well-traveled pathways. They create these neural pathways, these grooves in the mind that are hard to rewire.
So, it’s ideal if you can start with good, healthy habits from an early age, those can carry you throughout your adult life.

Marciane (9:27)
When is the right time to talk to kids about these key financial concepts? And, how can you start these conversations with your kids in an age-appropriate way?

Robin (9:36)
Every family will know — It’ll be different for every family in terms of what’s the perfect age. And, you’ll get cues from your own child as to if they’re starting to express curiosity about money or asking you questions.
For most families, it does happen around the age of five when their child starts through 10 preschool and they’re around other kids and they see what their kids have and do, etc. But, you know, it could be a little earlier or a little bit later. The framework that I’ve created to help parents tackle this is what I call the Five Pillars of Money.
And, those Five Pillars are “earn, save, spend, share, and invest.” So, the Five Pillars never change, but the specific topics and examples change as your kids grow up. So, in the book, I’ve actually identified Four Stages of Childhood, beginning with young kids, as we said, like five to eight, then preteens, nine to 12, teenagers, 13 to 18, and then emerging adults.
So, depending on what stage your child is at, the age-appropriate information, as you’ve just mentioned, is going to be different. So, it’s really important to share information that’s appropriate for that stage of their lives.

Marciane (10:53)
That’s so true. For some reason, it brought a memory to mind about when I was a child, like, we used to get, you know, like, quarters every time we lost a tooth. And, so with that, we were able to go to the store and my mom would be like, “okay, you can go and buy one thing, whether it’s a toy or a candy bar, whatever, but you can only buy what you have in your hand.”
And, I learned very quickly that the price tag on the sticker, and then where I went to pay was different. So, I had to, if I had a dollar in my hand, I needed to get something that didn’t say 99 cents because I didn’t think about tax. And, that was something when I was a kid that, like, just helped me learn that concept.
And, then when I was older, like, I’m so glad they’re implementing this because when I went to high school, I’m originally from Virginia in the States, and we had to do a financial literacy course in high school before we could graduate. And, so that’s when things like different savings accounts and retirement accounts and things like that came in. And, so then I was able to go home and have those conversations with my mom, like, “do you know what a Roth IRA is? Do you have, like, Office?” And, she’s like, “what?” And,\, so, it’s just interesting how, yeah, different life stages, you know, it’s still helpful.
I still remember that you got to add tax, but it’s these different things that will help you forever.

Robin (12:20)
Yes. So, what you’re talking about is what I call a “teachable moment.” So, you had your own money, you’re responsible for choosing what to do with it.
Well, you know, you earned it for your tooth, and then you could either save it, spend it, share it, or invest it. And, you were spending it and you learn that crucial lesson, and I do write about this, is sales tax. And, most provinces, you’re from the U.S., most states have some kind of a sales tax, and it’s going to be different wherever you live. But, that’s such an important lesson. And, then again, that could lead to a great conversation about, well, what are taxes used for in, you know, in Canada or in the U.S.? So, there’s so many opportunities to build a money lesson into your day-to-day lives for parents, especially with younger kids that are with you a lot. So, I encourage parents to seek those out and just take a moment to explain to your kid what’s going on, what you’re doing.
They may ask about it, like, “why do I have to pay more than 99 cents? It says 99 on the sticker.” Talk about it with them and, you know, or you can initiate the conversation as well.
So, yeah, those are all really great examples of how you learn as a child. And, like, it’s amazing what sticks with you as you get older. Tamara, do you also have some childhood memories?

Tamara (13:36)
Yeah, I’m like trying to remember now, too. I’m, like, I feel, like, for me, just like talking about the tax thing, my family’s originally from Europe. So, I remember going back to Europe and taxes included already in the price.
And, I remember that being weird for me because I was, like, “wait, it actually is what it says it is.” So, it’s kind of like opposite.

Robin (13:52)
Yeah. Right. That’s a really good point, too.
That’s right. Like, countries have different tax regimes and yeah, value-added tax in Europe is included in everything. So, very, very cool.
And, also you mentioned the Roth IRA . We don’t have those in Canada. We have something similar called the tax-free savings account.

So, for our Canadian listeners, you know, there is sometimes confusion about financial products, especially if you’re online and you’re getting information from like TikTok or something like that. And, they’re talking about Roth IRAs or 401ks and we don’t have those either. So, just for Canadians, it’s always really important to get information that’s relevant for the country that you’re in as well, not just the stage of life, but the country.

Tamara (14:33)
Yeah, that’s so true. And, we have a question about financial influencers that I feel like would segue perfectly right now. Just like with the rise of these “finfluencers,” financial influencers on social media has made financial advice definitely more accessible because it’s all over the place on TikTok, Instagram, etc., but, it sometimes is questionable.
So, what are your thoughts on the role of “finfluencers” in shaping financial habits, especially for younger audiences? And, then, how can parents guide their children to discern reliable financial advice online?

Robin (15:02)
Well, that’s the key is you want to make sure you’re getting information from a reliable source. And, some of these “finfluencers” have huge followings, but it doesn’t mean that they really, you know, have the actual background and experience. And, again, it depends on what type of advice we’re talking about.
And, everything seems to have like a hashtag or a trend. So, there was like this cash stuffing trend a little while ago, which was like using cash and envelopes for budgeting. And, that’s been around forever.
Like, that’s like the jar system we used to call it. And, now everything is digital. And, we can talk about that a bit later, too.
But okay, so something like that is harmless. It’s great that people are thinking about their budget and how much they’re spending. The next trend was, like, loud budgeting.
So, that’s sharing with your peers and your friends that you’re on a budget or that you don’t have the money to go out and do something and just not being ashamed and just being loud about it and ‘loud and proud.’ And, it might help you have that support to stick to what your goals are. So, I think that’s great, too.
But, I recently read there was something that was going on with depositing checks. And, it’s basically called kiting checks. And, it’s essentially committing financial fraud.
And, these influencers were encouraging people to, like, deposit a check and then take out the cash before the bank can process it. It’s not a legitimate check. And, that is fraud.
So, that is something you do not want your kids to do or anyone to do. So, it’s really important to know where the advice is coming from. What I would tell parents is try to stick to either financial institutions that have like a reliable brand.
Like for example, I do a lot of work with Fidelity Investments and they create really great content around investing. I also do a lot of work with Tangerine Bank, which does, again, great financial content with credible contributors around saving, spending, investing. I would also look and see what are the credentials of the person?
Like, are they a CPA like I am? Are they a CFA, which is another designation or a CFP? Sometimes it’s just people that have life experiences that they’re trying to share and there’s nothing wrong with that.

But you have to take it with a grain of salt. Also the Securities Commission, the Ontario Securities Commission and the other provincial security commissions create consumer websites that are credible, unbiased. So, there’s great information there.
Your bank, I’m sure also has tons of financial information. So, those are like the obvious places. They may not be as like fun and entertaining as a TikTok video.
And, I think that’s the issue is that you want your kids are engaged by those things. But, I think there’s still some really credible content creators out there that do have the legit credentials. So, just try and seek those out.

Marciane (17:51)
Definitely. And, we’ll be listing those resources, too, on our page because I feel like it’s something repeated in so many of our episodes where it’s, like, “please check your sources and make sure it’s coming from credible sources,” because you’re right, it’s exciting. They usually use, like, buzzwords or, like, fun, quick animations and things like that.
But, is it credible? Are they making you or leading you towards a territory of fraud? You know, things like that.

Robin (18:20)
So, we want to be careful. I know. That was, like, horrifying when I read about that.
I do have, on my website, robintaub.com, I have, like, a section that’s called further resources. And, I list all kinds of resources that we’ve vetted that I know are credible. Some are just free things, some are books, some are courses.So, you know, I keep up to date and I’m always adding to it. So, check there as well. If people are looking for things, they know they can count on.They’re not going to be encouraged to commit fraud. Absolutely.

Marciane (18:56)
Absolutely. It brought up a good point when we were saying, like, some of those videos can be engaging, things like that. That just got me thinking, what are some of the biggest challenges that parents could face when they’re trying to teach their kids about money and how can they overcome these challenges?

Robin (19:12)
Right. So, research has found that for most parents, the biggest challenges are lack of knowledge and lack of time. So, those are two big ones.
And, then, as I mentioned earlier, if you’re not doing a good job yourself, shame can prevent you from talking about this. And, that’s where, you know, I try to encourage parents to work on their own personal finances, try to get your own financial house in order first so you can lead by example, because we really are important role models for our children and we can be good financial role models and teach that way. You know, the other thing is to look for these teachable moments that tackles the issue of feeling like you don’t have time.
You don’t have to set aside like an hour a day to like have a formal lesson. These things will crop up in a natural way on a day-to-day basis. So, I encourage parents to just look for those opportunities.
And, then the third thing is to use your values, your personal values, the things that are most important to you to help guide and prioritize financial decisions and to set meaningful goals. So, I’ve actually created an exercise called the Values Validator to help parents and also, you know, older kids discover what their personal values are and to connect those to their financial goals because that helps you stick to a goal and save and stick with it. Everyone’s gonna have different values and goals, but it just helps to become more motivating when it’s important to you.

Marciane (20:43)
Yes, you got me thinking again. When you mentioned like the lack of knowledge and a lack of time — that’s so real. I think it makes me think of my mom again. “Thanks, mom.” She really was open about just different mistakes that she’s made with money. And, it was great because we got to have conversations about it, like, you know, “be careful who you accept a loan from, learn things like interest rates, learn how your money could possibly make money. Like, there’s different savings accounts, there’s different things like that.” Because, you know, she came as an immigrant from the Ivory Coast, like, you know, had to teach herself English and was in survival mode, like, for years and years and years. And, so, there wasn’t enough time to really, you know, sit down, take a financial class and, like, all these things.So, she really did have to learn on the fly. But, I really commend her because now she’s doing great. I learned a lot because she wasn’t afraid to say, “hey, I made this mistake.
This is what I learned. And, I walk so you can run. So, now don’t make that mistake.”
You know, that was so real. So, parents, “thank you for all that you do.” Even the mistakes, we learn.

Robin (21:55)
Thank you for sharing that. That is such a beautiful story.
And, like, I really admire your mother and you’re absolutely right. When you don’t speak the language, you’re trying to get by. Like, my grandparents were also immigrants to this country.I totally relate to that. Like, just what they had to do and sacrifice for their kids. And, they did just learn it all the hard way on the fly.And, mistakes are part of that. And, then, yes, you want to explain or talk about it a little more openly with your kids so that they can avoid some of those mistakes. But they’re not going to avoid every mistake or all mistakes, nor do we want them to.So, I think as parents, we naturally jump in. We don’t want our kids to hurt or fail. And, we tend to want to rescue them. ,But I think it’s important to let them make their own mistakes sometimes when the stakes are low. So, if you start teaching your kids when they’re young, they can’t make like a huge mistake that’s going to stay with them for the rest of their lives. You know, it’s going to be buying a toy that they regret or not having enough money to do something with their friends because they wasted it, you know, earlier in the week. By the time you get to your age or, you know, undergrad, you’re getting credit card offers. And, you can get into some trouble with that if you’re not financially literate.

Tamara (23:12)
Yeah, that’s so true, too. And, I actually have your first book here from 2011.
I remember one of the things you say in there is that a good example is the best teacher. And, I think it’s so important to point out that that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve done everything perfectly. Like, it is, like so much learning happens in those mistakes, too.
And, just having your kids, you know, watch you also make those mistakes. Like it is, there’s so much learning to be had from those moments as well. So, it’s just really interesting to think about, too.

Robin (23:42)
Look, I make mistakes, too. I’m a financial professional and I’m not perfect at all. So, you know, there’s times where I, you know, an email got blocked in spam.I didn’t pay a bill on time and I’m getting, like, a monitor or you didn’t, like, little things like that happen. And, we’re all human. And, it’s important to share that.I mean, paying your bills on time is important. Paying your credit card bill in time is important because it helps build your credit score. And, you can, again, another teachable moment.So, there’s so many, you just, you look around, you get creative. There’s so many ways to talk about all these different money management topics. And, most of them will fall under those Five Pillars of earn, save, spend, share and invest.

Tamara (24:24)
Yeah, it is so true too. And, even just like how many teachable moments there are, just like over the course of a normal day, too, that you don’t necessarily have to plan out is very interesting to me as well too, right? Like it doesn’t have to be this planned out lesson plan.
It just, like, happens.

Robin (24:37)
Because that will just overwhelm parents. And, I think this whole topic can be so overwhelming as it is. So, I was, like, “how can we make this something that parents can feel a little more comfortable with, a little more confident with.”
And, that’s when I came up with that framework, the Four Stages and the Five Pillars, and then these strategies of teachable moments, being a good financial role model and using your values. Cause, I feel like they’re accessible strategies. And, then, like you said, you can take, you can go take a further and take a course. You’re going to have to take a course in Ontario high school, but you know, in university, maybe you’ll take a course, but take it seriously. Right?
Like, I know my kids too, like, they had to take something in careers and they didn’t take it seriously. And, it’s such a missed opportunity because there’s so much important learning. Every parent has said to me over the years, “I can’t believe they don’t teach this in school.
I can’t believe they don’t teach this in school. They teach everything else, but this very practical thing.” And, now there has been that evolution that they are teaching it and hopefully it’s being taught well and kids are taking it seriously. Cause, I guess, you just don’t know what you don’t know when you’re young. You just don’t realize how important it is to learn this and take it, you know?

Tamara (25:50)
Yeah, for sure. And, even, you know, when you’ve heard it, when you’re younger, I feel like you are more likely to take it seriously when you are older too, right? Cause it’s not brand new to you. So, then like, you’ve kind of had that like foundation.

Robin (26:02)
Exactly.

Tamara (26:03)
Yeah. Another thing I wanted to comment on, too, was like the values and I find values very, very interesting. Just, like, thinking about being at this stage where I am at kind of coming to the end of my PhD. I spent a lot of time thinking about values in the sense of like, what do I value for a career? Like, where do I see myself going in that sense? But, I’ve never thought of how it could impact your finances. And, just thinking about that is very interesting because I also recently just got married over the summer. And, so I’m like, this, thank you.

Marciane (26:31)
Congrats.

Tamara (26:33)
But it’s also sparked a lot of like reading, you know, your book. I was like, “wow, like these are a lot of conversations I should be having in terms of like values.” Like, how are we going to set up our future? You know, buying a home, like, all these different things that kind of happen at this stage of life. But yeah, the Values Validator. I just thought that that was really interesting. So, I just really wanted to say, like, thank you for putting that in your books. And, I think it’s a very helpful resource.

Robin (26:54)
Oh, you’re welcome. And, people can actually get that for free. If they go to robintaub.com, it pops up. If you sign up for a newsletter, if the Values Validator pops up. So, it’s a great thing for, you know, if you don’t have the book, but you’re curious about it. And, similarly there, I did a financial role model self-assessment as well. That’s in the book. And, that’s available on my other website, which is thewisestinvestment.com, also for free. So, just these little tools that kind of bring a little self-awareness.
I first encountered like a values exercise. I did professional coaching training and it was more used like what you described, Tamara, which is around like your career and, like, finding purpose and all that. But, I felt it really applies so perfectly to money because how else can you prioritize a scarce resource? Like, money is scarce and finite. And, we have to decide what are our priorities and what do we want to put it towards? Because there’s competing things, like you said, a house, or is it, you know, do you want to take a honeymoon, for example, and get away and do something like that? Once you have kids, you want to save for their education. You have to pay the bills day to day. Like, there’s always so many competing things. So, being clear about your values and what’s important to you will really help clarify that.

Tamara (28:33)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so true. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense, too. And, like, recently, too, for me, it was actually, like, saving for a house or buying a new car. Right. Yeah. Like that was like recently kind of something that my husband and I were going through because we’re like, oh, like, “you know, the used car market is very expensive. Are we going to buy new? Are we going to buy used? Is that going to set us back from buying a house?” And, it’s like the values thing, like it really just does bring to the forefront what is important to us right now.

Robin (28:56)
Right. Yes. And, as you said, like now you’re married.So, each of you are going to have your own personal values and then you have shared values, as well. You know, you hope that they overlap to a large degree because values can be like, let’s just throw out some examples, like security, like a house that might, for some people be security. Some people might value adventure. So, they want to travel and see the world and do all that. Education is a big value for a lot of families. So, you know, hopefully you can each do this values validator and see where your values overlap and then use those to build some shared goals. And, it’s okay too to have some separate goals. And, then once you have children and they’re a bit older, they can do it as well because they will also have their own personalities, their own values. And, hopefully they will share many of yours because I think that’s important families to pass down their values.

Tamara (29:57)
Yeah, definitely. And, I think even with kids, too, I think it’d be interesting to do it, you know, school age, do it again in a few years like and see how they change because they are changing so much in those years, as well. And, see how their priorities might shift because I think that’s pretty normal, too, is that the values maybe change as we get older, too.

Robin (30:13)
Yes, it is interesting. And, like, you know, going back to the age appropriate, some of them, you know, they’re too young to have thought of those things. But, as they get older, they will certainly be — their worlds get bigger and certain things that weren’t important to them suddenly may be important.

Tamara (30:30)
Right, right. When you’re younger, you’re probably thinking about spending…But, maybe when you get a bit older, you’re hopefully thinking about investing a bit more.

Robin (30:34)
I hope so, because yeah, I mean, and that’s like, you know, one of the things that with Fidelity that we talk a lot about is, I mean, you have to save before you can invest. And, that means spending less than you make. But, investing is so important for young people to understand, because a lot of it is connected to the time that you have to invest, the “time horizon,” it’s called. And, the longer that is, the more that compounding can take effect. So, you know, in math, they talk about like simple interest and compound interest and compound interest is when you earn interest on your interest, as well as your initial principle. And, that really accelerates over time.
So, young people can really take advantage of that, even investing a small amount every month or whatever they can do can really, really compounds over time. So, yeah. And, you know, there’s so many tools now and apps that make it really easy to invest and do it automatically.
So, it’s again, it seems, especially right now that the markets have been very strong and there’s so much interest in investing with young people. I think it started in COVID when people were stuck at home and they got interested in it and there was the whole meme stock craze. But it’s a really important pillar, one of the five for people to understand.

Tamara (31:55)
Yeah, certainly. And, I’m actually you brought up a memory from my childhood. Now, I remember my parents opened a TFSA for me when I was pretty young.Like, I think I was around like, I don’t know, like 10 or 11. And, they had set up.

Robin (32:00)
Yeah, actually, you have to be 18.

Tamara (32:03)
OK, then maybe not a TFSA. Well, maybe it was just a youth account then.
Yeah. And, then when I got to that age, when I was a bit older, I remember I went to the bank once and they had encouraged me to pull a certain amount from my pay check to put it directly into my TFSA. So, like, you know, paying yourself first. But, I think, yeah, as, I like, because when I was 18, I did that. Then, when I got older, I was, like, “oh, OK, like, you know, we could really do a lot with this and interest in all these things.” But, with that, too, like, I’m wondering, because a lot of the time with like these online money accounts, like a lot of it, I feel like in the world we live in, like, everything is just so like digital, right? Like, it’s digital. I use my Apple wallet everywhere.
And, so how can parents teach children the value of money when it is often just like invisible in a way?

Robin (32:47)
Yeah, so you mean like use Apple Pay, you’re like tapping your phone everywhere or you watch? So, yes, that is one of the reasons that I updated the book in 2021.
So, you showed me the original book, which was called A Parent’s Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids. It’s now The Wisest Investment, was because we had entered this digital world. And, it was also very much accelerated by the pandemic. When people weren’t using cash, they weren’t really even going out and everything started to become digital. It is different. So, when you’re starting to teach young kids, I would suggest still using cash if— hopefully you have some around — because it’s tangible and concrete and it’s easy for them to understand. Digital money, it’s a little too conceptual for, like, a five year old. Like, maybe by the time they’re seven or eight, they’re going to start to get it. By the time they’re a preteen and they open, like, a youth account, they get a debit card, they’re going to be introduced to it. But, start with cash. And, again, you can play, like, counting games with coins. You can have your child pay at the store in cash and, like, identify the different denominations.
And, you know, Canadian money has a lot of fun stuff on it. So, it’s like a math lesson and a bit of a history lesson. So, there’s lots of fun things, ways to engage young kids with cash.
But, then it does become impractical to, as I said, starting when they get a youth account, they’re going to be using a debit card. So, that’s when you have to start explaining to them, like, “this is a debit card. You have to have the money in your account in order to use it if you’re withdrawing cash or you’re spending it in a store.”
You can also explain, once they get a bit older, the difference with a credit card versus a debit card where you’re actually borrowing money. And, we can get into that a little bit more. The apps we all have, at the Canadian banks, there’s, you know, most of them have an app that’s free, the mobile banking app. And, a lot of them have these built in tools for tracking your spending and creating budgets and setting notifications. So, those kinds of things are really great to help you control your spending and manage your money. So, even though on the spending side, digital means frictionless and it’s really easy to spend.
Some of the other things that you can set up, like, the tracking, the budgeting, the notifications help remind you, you know, you might get a notification on your phone or your watch that you have spent money and it makes it feel visceral. Like, you can actually feel, okay, I didn’t hand cash over, but I— actually, even though I just tapped, money is either going out of my account right now or I owe it on my credit card. It’s real. So, it’s just more challenging to make it feel real because, as I said, they’ve just made it so frictionless to spend.

Tamara (35:35)
Yeah, it’s so true. I feel like I, the visceral reaction part made me laugh actually, because I was like, that’s how I feel when I get the notification on my iPhone, like, Apple Wallet, like, it sees all the transactions and, I’m like, “whoa, I did spend that money.”

Robin (35:47)
Yeah, It happened, It adds up, right?

Marciane (35:53)
It really does, especially those small expenses. It’s, like, there was one point, especially during grad school, like, when I was really stressed, I would go in and I was, like, “where’s my money going?” And, it was like Uber Eats, Walmart, like Disney Plus, like just these small things that I was, like, “okay, is any of this necessary? Like, it’s not like textbooks and rent and stuff like that. It’s just all these little things.And, cutting out some of those things, I was saving a good, like, one to two hundred dollars a month. And, it’s just, like, those small things really do add up. And, even what you said about, like, money, I was, like, “oh, yeah, Canadian money is really cool.”

Robin (36:30)
Exactly. It’s so different than American money, which is like ours is so colourful and yours is kind of just green and hard to distinguish like the different bills. But, for kids here, it would be like, “oh, the blue one is the five and the purple one is the ten.”And, you know, like, it’s kind of easier. The brown one’s a hundred, not that they see that. But, going back to what you just said, Marciane, and is that, yeah, the importance of tracking your money, because a lot of times people do feel like I don’t know where it’s going. Like, I just like you get to the end of the money before the end of the month and you’ve no idea where it’s gone, especially like in the old days with cash, at least with digital, you do have that trail. So, that’s why I suggest using those built in apps. They’re not you don’t have to pay anything extra for them. They will help you create budgets. Then it’s like a question of, like, when you’re, like, “I got to get cut some spending.” How do you go about that? And, it’s that low hanging fruit that you just described, like, the wants versus the needs, like, the needs are the textbooks and rent and the wants are kind of, like, “I don’t feel like cooking. I’m just going to do Uber Eats, which is so expensive.”

Tamara (37:30)
Yes, it really is.

Robin (37:33)
It’s so expensive.

Marciane (37:36)
It’s such a killer. It’s such a killer. Absolutely. Absolutely. With that being said, I have a lot to say. But, after I ask this question, but how can parents from different socioeconomic backgrounds effectively teach their children about money considering their unique challenges?

Robin (38:02)
Right. So, I think the Five Pillars of— I’ll repeat them again, earn, save, spend, share and invest— apply to every family. And, I think obviously if you have children, they’re going to progress through these Four Stages of Childhood, of young kids, preteens, teens and young adults. So, I think there’s certain concepts and examples that are going to be universal. But as you shared earlier, Marciane, in a family where there’s scarcity and the first generation or what have you, the focus will be a little bit different. You know, maybe it’s more on just budgeting and day-to-day as opposed to having the opportunity to save and invest.
And, I think there are some families with generational wealth, for example, where they’re in a different situation. They’re not worrying about, you know, food and rent, etc. They have they have those means. And, you know, they’re trying to maybe teach their kids more about sharing and giving back to the community and also about investing and being a steward of wealth for the next generations to come. So, again, age appropriate information is so important as to what you share with your kids. So, in the first example, I think your mom did a great job balancing, like, teaching you and sharing what she was going through without overburdening you. As a child, there’s only so much you can do. I know a lot of teenagers do contribute to family households where there’s some struggling to make ends meet. And, I think, you know, you learn really fast and grow up really fast in those situations. So, as a parent, it’s our job to, you know, share what’s appropriate, but not overburden our kids and think about their age and their maturity and their temperament when we share the information. At the other end of the spectrum, wealthy families are concerned about how much to share about the family wealth and what age, because I would say all parents want to raise kids with a sense of purpose, not a sense of entitlement. But, that’s especially on the minds of wealthy families. So, they want their kids to have purpose, to have a meaningful career, you know, to give back to their community and not to be spoiled or entitled. So, the way they talk about money with them or with those concerns in mind, again, it’s like how much to share, at what age. Often their advisors can be very helpful in having those conversations, bringing in that third party that’s helping the family manage the money to, you know, bridge the gap between the generations and help educate that next generation.

Marciane (40:42)
I think it’s great that you gave both spectrums, because I think like no matter what your financial, you know, what your net worth is now, you have to think about finances and there’s always some worries and some considerations. And, I think, you know, for me, I grew up, like I said, kind of in survival mode. And, so my single parent immigrant mother did so much. And, she I’m so grateful for how she raised me and again, how I was able to learn so much from just seeing her example. But, it was difficult. I think there was a period in like my late teens to early adulthood where it was, kind of like, “all of this financial talk sounds great if I ever get the chance to to have like a moment to actually think about all this.”
But, like it seems like a vicious cycle where I’ll never get to think in that way, you know. And, even as a young, like a young-ish adult now, approaching 30, I guess, it can still be difficult. Like I also got married over the summer …

Robin (41:52)
Oh, good, congratulations to you as well.

Marciane (42:00)
Yeah, it was a busy summer for us. It was really busy. But, you know, now we’re also, like, immigrants into a new country and trying to start new. And, neither of us came from a rich background.And, so, it can just be challenging to sometimes think that any of what we can talk about when it comes to like having good financial health is like attainable.

Robin (42:26)
And, then I think community is really important, too. I think it is really hard to be new to a country and programs for newcomers. But, yeah, you have to reestablish yourself and that’s never easy. So, yes, reach out to your community. I think there’s so many great online communities. Like, I know there’s a Personal Finance Canada subreddit that’s full of, like, amazing information. You know, again, it’s Reddit, so take it with a grain of salt. But, I bet you there’s communities for all kinds of people that are new here. And, coming from the U.S. or from wherever.

Tamara (42:44)
Yeah, definitely. And, the Personal Finance Reddit, I actually look at that Reddit all the time. It’s a good one. Yeah, I do get all kinds of ideas from there.

Robin (42:55)
I know. So, do we. Like my assistant, Lauren, and I, she loves being on there.
But yeah, I actually did a Reddit with Fidelity, too, about this topic, teaching kids about money, like an AMA.

Tamara (43:00)
Yeah, yeah.

Robin (43:03)
Oh, very cool. Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah.

Tamara (43:09)
Yeah, that’s sweet. Well, to close out the podcast, we like to give families Three Practical Take- Home Tips. So, considering all the topics we’ve discussed today, what are three tips that can be shared with our listeners to help them foster financial literacy in their kids?

Robin (43:23)
Yeah, so they’re tips I’ve already shared, but I’m just going to repeat them just to really bring it home. So, the first one is try to get your own financial house in order with healthy habits so that you can be a good financial role model and lead by example. The second is to look for teachable moments, to build a money lesson naturally in your day-to-day lives, to deal with the issue that parents feel like they don’t have the time or opportunity to teach their kids. And, then lastly, it’s the values piece. You know, use your values to help guide and prioritize financial decisions and set meaningful goals… and keep in mind the Five Pillars. That would be the fourth. [laughter]

Marciane (44:08)
I love it. I’ve taken a lot of notes.
Thank you so much, again, Robin, for taking the time to chat with us about fostering financial literacy in kids and for sharing your expertise with us on the Healthy Habits, Happy Homes podcast.

Robin (44:13)
It was my pleasure. I love speaking with both of you. And, it’s just cool to hear your perspectives as grad students. And, thank you for inviting me on.

Tamara (44:20)
Yeah, it was so incredible having you here. I feel like Marciane and I both have date nights this weekend now looking at our values, comparing them and budgeting. So, that’s great.
Lots of good learning for us. So, thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared. We really hope that our listeners can take away some of the suggestions, and we’ll see you guys next time!